tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-19218379.post114486668410651227..comments2023-09-11T01:08:04.956-07:00Comments on The Blackwing Diaries: On Story: True CharactersJenny Lerewhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/06668171465801333811noreply@blogger.comBlogger19125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-19218379.post-8280096577142624342007-01-15T12:18:00.000-08:002007-01-15T12:18:00.000-08:00Wow, you really have a great blog here with great ...Wow, you really have a great blog here with great insight.Chuckhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/18058997529396296679noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-19218379.post-1145303891913423372006-04-17T12:58:00.000-07:002006-04-17T12:58:00.000-07:00Wow! I just discovered your blog. These are great ...Wow! I just discovered your blog. These are great insights! I'll be coming back and will post a link from my blog.Lee-Royhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12258513229576666386noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-19218379.post-1145033175860020852006-04-14T09:46:00.000-07:002006-04-14T09:46:00.000-07:00Fantastic post! Right on the money!I think McKee g...Fantastic post! Right on the money!<BR/><BR/>I think McKee gets blamed unfairly for bad writing. The man uses simple models to illustrate how the process works. He doesn’t claim to have all the secrets – just the basics. Bad writers take his basic spring board ‘illustrations’ and mistake them for the be-all and end-all of the craft. <BR/><BR/>However, he does call animation a ‘genre’. Don’t tell Brad Bird.Alihttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12200158738230958775noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-19218379.post-1145004777280442352006-04-14T01:52:00.000-07:002006-04-14T01:52:00.000-07:00Yay!!!!What a fantastic post. As now an ex-Disney ...Yay!!!!<BR/><BR/>What a fantastic post. As now an ex-Disney Animator from the Australian studio, I and my colleagues have had to work on far too many of these flat, one dimensional and annoying characters that seem to only serve the whims of "creative executives" who want to provide input to a film. <BR/><BR/>On far too many of these Disney sequels do we see not only the same formulaic story, but also characters who have been diluted from their original spark that made them so appealing in the original. They have become whimpy and annoying - a kind of noncommittal safeness designed not to offend anyone and therefore appealing to none. These are issues we have constantly butted our heads against, but to no avail. So many stories were changed for the worse (not that they were necessarily great ideas to start with - Oh, the concepts that were proposed), for what purpose we don't know, but the decisions were made by people who were in the postions to know. Often, the changes would go off on such a tangent, it would completely lose the story point that was trying to be made. It seems that the marketing department and test audiences have more control than the creator. The other possibility is that the "writers" see animation as live actions second cousin and almost view it with contempt.<BR/><BR/>Hooray for story people like you Jenny. As an industry we need to see more of this character driven storytelling that is far to often lauded by us, but ignored by the people who make the decisions. It is the reason that has made Pixar the success it is and the reason behind 2D's demise with films like "Emperor's new Groove", "Atlantis", and "Treasure Planet". No more explanatory dialodue, no more "I'm the comedy relief", and why would Mowgli choose to stay in the village with "rules, rules, rules" and not hang out with Baloo and Bagheera in the jungle.<BR/><BR/>Let's hope John Lasseter clears out the crap from the Disney attic.Richardhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08102950888265856546noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-19218379.post-1144973922194888192006-04-13T17:18:00.000-07:002006-04-13T17:18:00.000-07:00jenny,long time no speak - thank you for posting i...jenny,<BR/><BR/>long time no speak - thank you for posting it - this will be plastered up all over my work area this year (all 2 weeks of it) and all of next year when I'm making a film. I owe ya one :)<BR/><BR/>-R.Randeep Katarihttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02513054840931685761noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-19218379.post-1144965294351412422006-04-13T14:54:00.000-07:002006-04-13T14:54:00.000-07:00What you just posted should be hanging on the wall...What you just posted should be hanging on the wall of every animation artist and writer. But it's not, so thank you for putting it up here.Tom Doughertyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04957278460932227241noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-19218379.post-1144952680858913362006-04-13T11:24:00.000-07:002006-04-13T11:24:00.000-07:00Hear, hear!That's one of the biggest problems with...Hear, hear!<BR/><BR/>That's one of the biggest problems with moviemaking of any kind these days, not just animated features (but the fact that we're supposed empathize with these lifeless 3D dolls does have a lot to do with it too). <BR/><BR/>Characters are just too superficial. They are annoying from the beginning- full of smart-ass, offensive comments and often exhibiting abrasive, annoying characteristics, and for some strange reason we're supposed to like them. Many of them get into some perilous predicament somewhere in the movie, screeching at the top of their voice actors' lungs, and I find myself actually rooting for their demise just so they will shut up and the movie will be over. <BR/><BR/>...And then I'm tormented by that Act 3 unbelievable switch in personality accompanied by the sympathetic and manipulative "sad-eyed" face and base violin as some lame attempt to arouse my feelings for the character, and I feel like shouting out loud, "Oh Brother..."<BR/><BR/>You're absolutely right, Jenny- Personally, I avoided the Incredibles until I almost had no choice but to watch it, and guess what... it was actually entertaining. And you were right about the characters- I found myself feeling good for Violet when she managed to pull up a little self-esteem; I was rooting for Dash as he ran away form the flying 'saucers'; and when Mr. and Mrs. Incredible were having the 'infidelity' arguement, I actually cared to see that they resolved it. The characters had depth- which developed through the picture. They showed us that they weren't some paper-thin fabrications- and there was an actual story! <BR/><BR/>One reason the International market's movies are so entertaining is because I find they know how to engage the viewer in an interesting story.... especially the Japanese. It's not easy to predict the endings or storyline, unlike our homegrown fodder. And as a result, the characters are allowed to grow and develop. <BR/><BR/>Great Post, Jenny... hopefully some aspiring moviemaker will read your post and get a clue.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-19218379.post-1144947702831310512006-04-13T10:01:00.000-07:002006-04-13T10:01:00.000-07:00Jenny, this is a superb post. I wholly agree. In a...Jenny, this is a superb post. I wholly agree. In a recent edition of <I>The Animation Podcast</I>, Milt Kahl can be heard addressing Brad Bird (among others) about the lack of integrity in the Disney characters he so beautifully animated. He said that the actors and directors just went nuts, forgetting everything that makes villians scary and... well, villianous. Brad Bird is one guy who really <I>gets</I> it. You care about Hogarth, about Dash, and even about Syndrome and Kent Mansley.<BR/>Disney, too, has had some recent sucess. You mentioned Lilo, and also there was Kuzco from <I>Emperor's New Groove</I>, a truly odious character voiced by an actor who, frankly, has usually made me rethink gun control. But in this case, it works beautifully.<BR/>I am cheered that we have had <I>The Simpsons</I> to show that it's possible to have both gags aplenty and static, buffoonish characters who neither learn nor grow but are still likeable. <BR/>Thanks again for a great post, and I look forward to reading further thoughts on this and other subjects.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-19218379.post-1144947439351707162006-04-13T09:57:00.000-07:002006-04-13T09:57:00.000-07:00Things go wrong the other way too. Sometimes arti...Things go wrong the other way too. Sometimes artists try too hard to make a character likable with the result being that the character instead rattles our nerves. I think JarJar Binks had this problem.<BR/><BR/>But yeah, many many people in the industry today need to knwo the importance of a strong , well-developed character. Without at least one of those in the story, you've got nothng.David Germainhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15242095374521702596noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-19218379.post-1144946012444458032006-04-13T09:33:00.000-07:002006-04-13T09:33:00.000-07:00Bob McKee's writing seminar could be blamed to som...Bob McKee's writing seminar could be blamed to some degree for the popularity of the 'flaw that drives everything' theory; when I took it sixteen years ago, the entire Paramount development department was in the audience, soaking it all up like one collective, grossly overcompensated sponge. But McKee's story structure has almost nothing to say about comedy, other than the narrow, dated Blake Edwards approach. McKee, near the 3/4 point in his seminar actually stated: "When it comes to comedy, everything I've said up to now gets reversed." (What?) Visual animation storytelling of the sort you describe isn't even on the man's radar because he's never touched it. But McKee's approach IS a stellar pack of rules should one want to write sixty minute "Columbo" episodes for the rest of one's natural life. Follow them for animation production and you get what Disney TV Animation got in the 90's - reels and reels of talking heads. Management bought that approach lock, stock and barrel because it's all they could get their little, nonvisual minds around.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-19218379.post-1144945544208134462006-04-13T09:25:00.000-07:002006-04-13T09:25:00.000-07:00Amen.>oViAmen.<BR/><BR/><BR/><BR/>>oViOV!https://www.blogger.com/profile/15966220886962612187noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-19218379.post-1144938338504998762006-04-13T07:25:00.000-07:002006-04-13T07:25:00.000-07:00Your post really resonated with me, Jenny. We are ...Your post really resonated with me, Jenny. We are currently wrestling with the problem of character on a fledgling project at work right now, and to read your words really reminded me of what our mission should be as storytellers and filmmakers. <BR/> You will be interested to know and sadly, not suprised that Chris had major battles with management over Lilo and how he saw her. It is gratifying to hear that the battles that he and Dean fought were not in vain.<BR/>Thanks for such a wonderful post!John S.https://www.blogger.com/profile/03562963042584020477noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-19218379.post-1144922357321230152006-04-13T02:59:00.000-07:002006-04-13T02:59:00.000-07:00Wonderful post, article, clarion call! It's a trut...Wonderful post, article, clarion call! It's a truth that everyone knows, but very few remember. Thanks for the reminder.Clay Kaytishttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12694894319873375742noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-19218379.post-1144920903348996662006-04-13T02:35:00.000-07:002006-04-13T02:35:00.000-07:00am i the only one here who believes that the peopl...am i the only one here who believes that the people who dream up these selfish jerk characters are themselves....<BR/>selfish jerks?<BR/>its just a personal belief of mine.<BR/>you know how artists often draw characters that look like themselves(Frazetta, Kirby, Gorey, etc.).<BR/>sometimes i'm left to think nothing but that the people who concoct these irritable spiteful characters are projecting a lot of whats inside them.....Robiscushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17299444837899738697noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-19218379.post-1144885008950528002006-04-12T16:36:00.000-07:002006-04-12T16:36:00.000-07:00You called it! Sometimes I wonder what it'll take ...You called it! Sometimes I wonder what it'll take for some people to break beyond McKee when it comes to developing a story. It's so frustrating. All the jergon and graphs in the world won't help a jerk in a feature film.<BR/><BR/>Ronnie Del Carmen's advice (from the Banff summit last year) comes to mind: tell the film's story like it was something that happened to <I>you</I> on the weekend. <BR/><BR/>Now(assuming you aren't a boring jerk) your actions should be understandably motivated. With any luck, folks will gladly follow your thread. Try doing <I>that</I> with some feature scripts.<BR/><BR/>Having said that, a jerk CAN be fun to watch...but the art of being a <I>lovable</I> jerk is largely lost, however. Think Carrol O'Conner in 'All in the Family' or Walter Matthau. Jerks, but utterly human.<BR/><BR/>You're like a tuning fork, Jenny. Ringing true and clear. Keep going!warrenhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09034823254751468446noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-19218379.post-1144880833883670612006-04-12T15:27:00.000-07:002006-04-12T15:27:00.000-07:00Clearly you think about them. Very astute indeed.Clearly you think about them. Very astute indeed.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-19218379.post-1144879093957416592006-04-12T14:58:00.000-07:002006-04-12T14:58:00.000-07:00I think what you've said here goes hand in hand wi...I think what you've said here goes hand in hand with the type of smart-alecky put-down dialogue that passes for "humor" these days. It's generally not character driven situations that are mined for their comedic potential, but schoolyard insults and excremental references that seem as if they are written BY 3rd graders, not FOR 3rd graders, (which is a whole other topic; writing down to the audience and the whole lowest common denominator thing). It's pretty difficult to feel any empathy for characters like that.<BR/><BR/>That's not to say that a character that is supposed to be antagonistic shouldn't insult other characters or exhibit other dispicable traits, because it's in his/her nature to do so. But there should be more to the character than that, there should be a reason for their actions. The reason is what gives you empathy even for your villains.<BR/><BR/>If the creator doesn't care enough about the lead character to show those moments of humanity that make the character one the audience can identify with, then why should they care about anything else in the story?Roccohttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06112066005366809913noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-19218379.post-1144878601560632122006-04-12T14:50:00.000-07:002006-04-12T14:50:00.000-07:00What an insightful commentary. And what a pleasure...What an insightful commentary. And what a pleasure it would have been to work with someone so knowledgeable about story and character.<BR/><BR/>Every now and then -- and it's not often -- I'm lucky enough to work with someone who truly "gets it." I think Walt Disney would have been pleased to have you as one of his "story guys." It might have changed his ideas about women.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-19218379.post-1144876003074500882006-04-12T14:06:00.000-07:002006-04-12T14:06:00.000-07:00This post is exceptional! I completely agree with...This post is exceptional! I completely agree with you. Awesome insight that many don't notice becuase we're too busy boarding the first guy. Great, Great, Great!Dave Pimentelhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01296660254978195721noreply@blogger.com